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	<title>Comments on: How new media objects change old media</title>
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	<link>http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/</link>
	<description>About Art, Media and Technology and the future of it</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Wilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104428</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 09:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104428</guid>
		<description>@Henk I think I was a bit too enthusiastic with the stars, thanks for noticing. Later I thought about how hotels use stars to indicate quality. I'm probably wrong with more of the examples, since it doesn't change in a moment. It's the shifting of meaning that changes over time. Especially for symbols. Signs and symbols used to be culturally defined, mass media is changing this into universally defined.

Your example of the undo and redo button is a very good one. We never had the option to 'undo' something before the introduction of computers. We could hide and redo, but we would always have waste. We couldn't undo something as if it never happened. 

Interface designers never came up with a strong symbol for the function 'undo' and used an arrow to indicate it, which also indicates previous (page). Maybe we should indicate 'undo' as 'mistake'. If we have an icon/object that means mistake we can probably transfer it back to previous media. Maybe they should have used the eraser icon. If this icon is common for mistakes you can use this in a newspaper to indicate the corrections part.

The undo button and edit options (think wikipedia) are changing the way we think about mistakes. Is a mistake still wrong? Or is it something that isn't finished? The way we think about mistakes is something that is already influencing previous media. Newspapers for example never discussed the mistakes they have made so openly as they are doing right now. 

In new media much of your credibility has to do with acknowledging the mistakes you make. Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone acknowledges it. Although this is a difficult discussion since we only want truth.

@Anne the popularity of tag clouds is amazing. A lot of people don't understand it, but like it. I don't think it's a great navigator. What I think it can do very well is set the atmosphere of a website. By looking at a tag cloud you know what the website is about and how important those topics are. 

I'm not saying a tag cloud should be printed but maybe a derivation could be a very smart indicator for the contents of a magazine or newspaper.

Thanks for reminding &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Remediation-Understanding-Jay-David-Bolter/dp/0262522799" rel="nofollow"&gt;(re)mediation&lt;/a&gt;. I have read it a few years ago, I liked it but somehow I thought the topic was too difficult or abstract and I got stuck on the immediacy part. I think I will (re)read it :)

&lt;strong&gt;The video indicator&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;img src="http://www.hypernarrative.com/images/youtube_bar-20071110-102158.jpg" border="1" alt="YouTube bar"&gt;
I found another indicator. The bar we know from youtube and every other audio and videoplayer that indicates the duration of something and where you are right now. I have seen it being used on television and I think it works great on television as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Henk I think I was a bit too enthusiastic with the stars, thanks for noticing. Later I thought about how hotels use stars to indicate quality. I&#8217;m probably wrong with more of the examples, since it doesn&#8217;t change in a moment. It&#8217;s the shifting of meaning that changes over time. Especially for symbols. Signs and symbols used to be culturally defined, mass media is changing this into universally defined.</p>
<p>Your example of the undo and redo button is a very good one. We never had the option to &#8216;undo&#8217; something before the introduction of computers. We could hide and redo, but we would always have waste. We couldn&#8217;t undo something as if it never happened. </p>
<p>Interface designers never came up with a strong symbol for the function &#8216;undo&#8217; and used an arrow to indicate it, which also indicates previous (page). Maybe we should indicate &#8216;undo&#8217; as &#8216;mistake&#8217;. If we have an icon/object that means mistake we can probably transfer it back to previous media. Maybe they should have used the eraser icon. If this icon is common for mistakes you can use this in a newspaper to indicate the corrections part.</p>
<p>The undo button and edit options (think wikipedia) are changing the way we think about mistakes. Is a mistake still wrong? Or is it something that isn&#8217;t finished? The way we think about mistakes is something that is already influencing previous media. Newspapers for example never discussed the mistakes they have made so openly as they are doing right now. </p>
<p>In new media much of your credibility has to do with acknowledging the mistakes you make. Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone acknowledges it. Although this is a difficult discussion since we only want truth.</p>
<p>@Anne the popularity of tag clouds is amazing. A lot of people don&#8217;t understand it, but like it. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a great navigator. What I think it can do very well is set the atmosphere of a website. By looking at a tag cloud you know what the website is about and how important those topics are. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying a tag cloud should be printed but maybe a derivation could be a very smart indicator for the contents of a magazine or newspaper.</p>
<p>Thanks for reminding <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Remediation-Understanding-Jay-David-Bolter/dp/0262522799" rel="nofollow">(re)mediation</a>. I have read it a few years ago, I liked it but somehow I thought the topic was too difficult or abstract and I got stuck on the immediacy part. I think I will (re)read it :)</p>
<p><strong>The video indicator</strong><br />
<img src="http://www.hypernarrative.com/images/youtube_bar-20071110-102158.jpg" border="1" alt="YouTube bar"/><br />
I found another indicator. The bar we know from youtube and every other audio and videoplayer that indicates the duration of something and where you are right now. I have seen it being used on television and I think it works great on television as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Helmond</title>
		<link>http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104288</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Helmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104288</guid>
		<description>Interesting food for thought. It is Bolter and Grusin's remediation working both ways. Even though I love tag clouds I am not too keen on them appearing in "old" media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting food for thought. It is Bolter and Grusin&#8217;s remediation working both ways. Even though I love tag clouds I am not too keen on them appearing in &#8220;old&#8221; media.</p>
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		<title>By: Henk Blanken</title>
		<link>http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104287</link>
		<dc:creator>Henk Blanken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104287</guid>
		<description>Wilbert, smart piece. But my guess is that you're wrong where you say that star ratings got popular on the web. I think they are older. Rather superb though is the line where you say that the star system now reflects the view of the audience, not the editors. Shit, I thought, I missed that one, but he must be right.

I'm most fascinated by the undo and redo buttons. They don't transfer, as you say, to previous media, but they're a great metafor for all things changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilbert, smart piece. But my guess is that you&#8217;re wrong where you say that star ratings got popular on the web. I think they are older. Rather superb though is the line where you say that the star system now reflects the view of the audience, not the editors. Shit, I thought, I missed that one, but he must be right.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m most fascinated by the undo and redo buttons. They don&#8217;t transfer, as you say, to previous media, but they&#8217;re a great metafor for all things changed.</p>
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		<title>By: inrocket &#187; How new media objects change old media</title>
		<link>http://www.hypernarrative.com/wordpress/2007/11/09/how-new-media-objects-change-old-media/#comment-104254</link>
		<dc:creator>inrocket &#187; How new media objects change old media</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] check the full story here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] check the full story here [...]</p>
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